susangg
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How are these ROP lots are "being titled"
Melody:
I am posting this here instead of in the RE for sale section because I suspect it may trigger a thread about titling issues and I don't want to muddy the RE for sale forum with this kind of discussion...
YOU POSTED THIS (in RE for sale forum) (snipped):
1-Acre Lots Across Road from Sand and Surf!
There are 5 of these beautiful wooded lots across the road from Bluff Beach, the best surfing spot in Bocas! Buy one or buy all at a discount. Perfect for an eco-resort! Beachfront has become scarce and they won’t last long! Currently R.O.P in a corporation, however, title is being obtained.
MY QUESTION:
Can you please explain how these ROP lots on an island are being titled? It's my understanding that the law does not currently allow island ROP property to be titled. That may change for certain types of projects if P. 132 is adopted, but that's in the future. So can you please explain how this can happen, here and now?
I am sure there are a lot of us with ROP who would love to have our land titled, but we have been told by our lawyers that it is not currently possible. So how is the owner of these lots doing it and when does he or she expect it will be finalized in the public registry?
I have heard that it is possible to have a title issued if you can prove that the property was titled prior to 1941 but that the chain of transfers after that was not maintained in the registry. This strikes me as a very difficult process and also risky, since one of those owners in the chain might come back and try to reclaim his property...is that what the sellers are doing?
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11/18/2005, 8:54 am
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BocasBreeze
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Re: How are these ROP lots are "being titled"
Hi Susan,
I'm sorry I just noticed your email. (I thought I would receive a notice that someone was responding).
Thank you for your question. Any land that has previously been titled (before 1941) can be titled can be-retitled. I do not know how long this process can take. If the property has been R.O.P. certified by Catastro to the new owner, it seems that would be a problem for the person who claims to have title to come back and take it, rather than the legal R.O.P. holder.
Sometimes with titled property that was sold years ago, the new owner never applied for a new title it, most likely so as not to have to pay taxes. So it got re-sold as R.O.P.
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11/28/2005, 5:13 pm
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1stiffbrit
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Re: How are these ROP lots are "being titled"
Hello I wondered, reading about the ROP lots, if owners werent nervous regarding this law, proposition 132 which could give their ROP lands to developers. Or has the proposition been repealed? Paul  
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1/17/2006, 3:51 pm
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BocasBreeze
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Re: How are these ROP lots are "being titled"
P132, now Law 2, was signed into effect by the president on January 11th. You can find the English version in the FILES section of this site.
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1/17/2006, 4:06 pm
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1stiffbrit
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Re: How are these ROP lots are "being titled"
Thankyou Bocasbreeze, So does this mean, with my understanding of the article in the Noriega news, that any developer who has given enough kickback to the right authority can come in & take over any ROP property he wants as long as it is developed for tourism?.
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1/18/2006, 2:55 am
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susangg
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Re: How are these ROP lots are "being titled"
Unfortunately, the limitations of the technology of this board does not allow for a place to post "FILES". I will post here as a message the final version of the Law (formerly P. 132, now Ley No. 2) both in Spanish and English (translation provided by a certified legal translator). If you are a CURRENT property owner in Bocas (not merely looking) you can send me a private email and ask to join the Bocas property owners private yahoo group. My (new) email address is: [email protected]
As for your question: What you describe (developers trying to get the government to grab your land because they want it) is a "worst case scenario" that many of us were concerned about when this law was first being proposed. Due to a great deal of lobbying by diverse groups, such as the College of Abogados (Bar Assn.), local property owners, activists in the indigenous and environmentalist communities and others, the law was improved somewhat. It is still very vague, but there are protections written into the law for current ROP holders. Unless you bought someone else's land from the former mayor or otherwise were involved in a fraudulent deal, and you have some basis for claiming your ROP (such as a certification from the Reforma Agraria or other evidence of occupation going back at least two years before the bill was passed) it will be very hard for anyone to take your property away. But, depending on where your ROP Is located (is it in a "tourism development zone" or not...) you may have to apply for a concession and nobody knows how much that will cost. If you can't afford it, that could result in a "taking." And the amount of land you are allowed to concession may be less than what you bought rights to. NObody knows how the law will be implemented and we may not know for a long time (I doubt if the government knows, other than they know that certain big developers will be able to get their ROP property titled so their buyers can get mortgages, which is why this law was adopted in the first place....)
This government under this president isn't going to be running around taking people's property away, I don't think. But of course, anything can happen in the future, and laws in Panama are purposely written very broadly, to give maximum discretion so as to give maximum leeway to do things that benefit the well-connected.
For that reason, thinking long-term, if I was looking for property in the islands right now (any islands, not just Bocas) I would only buy titled property. Less desireable would be ROP that has been held by a corporation, with documents issued by the Reforma Agraria earlier than January 10 2004, where you are buying the entirety of the corporation and the legal "owner" is therefore not changing. But if you buy such a corporation now, you are buying without knowing how much of the land you will be allowed to keep (if its in a tourism development zone) or how much the concession process will cost you.
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1/20/2006, 9:04 am
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